Is Ajax Deprecating Client Side Java?
December 11, 2006 – 6:45 pm by coachwei | Category WebDev, conference | 10 Comments »The Ajax wildfire makes many people constantly think about what impact it has on other technologies such as Java, Flash and .NET. Are application developers going to switch from other technologies to Ajax? I explored this subject with regard to Flash in my earlier post
The Converging Developer Community - AJAX to overtake Flash
In that post, a survey conducted by SitePoint revealed that Ajax is overtaking Flash over the next 12 months. What does Ajax mean to Java, in particular, client side Java?
I am thinking about proposing a talk at some of the upcoming conferences with regard to Ajax and Java. For example, JavaOne. Would like to see if people think this proposal is interesting.
Title: Is Ajax Deprecating Client Side Java?
Abstract:
Demand for better user experience has brought rich Internet application into center stage of application development. Ajax and Java both are strong and open technologies for developing rich applications. Historically, Java has been the technology of choice for rich client development with options such as Swing and Eclipse RCP. Java-based rich applications can be deployed onto a browser or even mobile devices. However, the rapid rise of Ajax over the last 18 months captured everybody’s attention. Even historically strong Java communities have been rushing to catch the band wagon of Ajax.
Is Ajax stealing the thunder of client side Java? Where does client side Java fit in a world that everyone is fascinated by Ajax? How does Java and Ajax stack up against each other? From a functionality perspective, both have been proven to be capable of enabling sophisticated client side applications. From a developer skill set, should enterprises try to convert Java developers into Ajax developers? Within both Java and Ajax, there are a wide variety of toolkits and deployment options, what are the tradeoffs between these? If you need to make a choice for your project, how do you decide between Ajax and Java?
In this presentation we will use a demo application built on both Java and Ajax to illustrate the differences and values offered by Ajax and Java, factors that developers need to consider when deciding between the two technologies.
Presentation Summary:
- Introduction and overview of client side Java and Ajax
- Fundamental concepts
- Declarative and programmatic programming models
- Java toolkits vs. Ajax toolkits
- Application development: Java vs. Ajax
- Application deployment : Java vs. Ajax
- Tools and code maintenance: Java vs. Ajax
- Introduction of the demo application “Web Trader” on both Ajax and Java
- Comparing Ajax and Client side Java:
- User interface: Java vs. Ajax
- Business logic: Java vs. Ajax
- Data integration: Java vs. Ajax
- Performance and code maintainability: Ajax vs. Java
- When to pick what?
- Evaluation of various Java and Ajax toolkits
- Java:
- Swing, Eclipse RCP, Nexaweb, Thinlet, etc.
- Ajax:
- Apache XAP, Dojo, Scriptaculous, etc.
- jMaki, etc.
- Java:
- Conclusion
What do you think? Would you be interested in going to such a talk?
10 Responses to “Is Ajax Deprecating Client Side Java?”
I am interested in the talk very much. Would you please post your slides online before or after the talk? Thanks!
By Anonymous on Dec 12, 2006
you're just not subscribed to rich client developer blogs. There are much higher ranked swing blogs then yours.
Romain Guy of swing fame http://www.jroller.com/page/gfx was consistently the top read blog on jroller before jroller removed the 'most read' blog tracking from their homepage.
By Anonymous on Dec 12, 2006
hey coach, great topic! I don't think there is any question that for many applications Ajax will replace Java on the front end. That doesn't mean Java is going away on the backend though. I think it's clear to make that distinction in your talk and up front. The thing about Ajax is it's “good enough” for 80% of web (and other) apps out there, and then you can use Flash/Java/WPF for those really specialized apps that need to go further.
By Andre Charland (http://blogs.nitobi.com/andre/) on Dec 12, 2006
You mean the Google intern. Is this relevant here?
By Anonymous on Dec 13, 2006
Interesting article. However, I don't really think that Java is going away anytime soon.
By Anonymous on Dec 13, 2006
The relevance is regards to your topic about client side java. you obviously don't know who he is otherwise you wouldn't have slagged him off as just a google intern. which proves my point exactly; your topic promotes ajax and you don't 'know' the alternative space.
I don't have a problem w/ your topic at all; I perhaps didn't word it right but if you aren't aware of him, then I would say you prob aren't aware of the capabilities of client side java
If you are going to JavaOne, I'm sure you can look him up and sit in on his presentation….he worked er rather interned at Sun and has presented at the last 3 or so as well as all the Javapolis etc stuff
By Anonymous on Dec 13, 2006
AJAX has its place (barely)… but it certainly complicates what otherwise would be a very maintainable application. Let's all remember AJAX is a technology 'feature' set, not a technology 'solution'.
Personally, I think FLash/Flex/AS solution has a huge leg up over AJAX. It provides far better visuals, user interaction, client-side caching, and user logic which removes the load on servers tremendously. Plus you have built-in support for remotable Java server objects.
AJAX is a cobbled patchwork, and even if everyone knows how to do it well, they certainly wouldn't want to maintain or extend applications utilizing 'AJAX' features for a lengthy period of time.
Why complicate what should otherwise be a very simple idea - having a rich user experience that can utilize client side resources yet still be controlled by a server - with a messy solution of javascript, dom manipulation, and xmlhttp requests?
By Anonymous on Dec 15, 2006
I would agree with your Ajax assessment, Ajax is more of a Hack then a platform to build real applications. Until a GoogleMaps, “Ajax” was strictly used to do popup menus and image swapping, and now everyone and their brother is jumping on the Ajax band wagon. Come a year from now people will be waking up with a huge Ajax hangover and a bunch of illegitimate applications that should have never been built on Ajax.
Ajax is good for small incrementally enhancements to html applications, but for heads down mission critical applications, it’s best to build them on solid platform, Win, Java, and maybe Flash.
By Anonymous on Dec 17, 2006
The appearance of GWT has rendered your title obsolete. Java continues even in the world of AJAX.
Indeed, enterprise development-wise I would not have touched any RIA technologies for our use if it were not for the appearance of GWT.
Now everything we know and benefit by (strong type checking, IDE code completion, language-level debugging) in terms of being a Java development shop, we retain when we develop web RIA apps using GWT.
Answer: I have no interest in a conference such as you propose because GWT and GWT Designer have already provided the answers.
By Anonymous on Dec 21, 2006
I don't think gwt render obsolete this thread, I think gwt is for java developers who want to develop with ajax without know anything about ajax technology, but gwt doesn't uses java in the server side, put attention to this, again it's not java is a translator from java to ajax but it's not mixed, java is very slow and ajax is fast and more capable in RIA applications.
So I think ajax has too that advantage with gwt, that java programmers can develop ajax without learning ajax, which cannot be done from ajax to java like that of easy, and including ajax in a java application has no sense because de JVM lose time managing ajax, so I must say YES, ajax is Deprecting Java in the Client Side. In Financial areas as banks and in govern.
By Anonymous on Apr 2, 2008